As times are changing, current mandates are allowing innovators to step in with new ideas as well as accelerate others that needed a market push. New table games and technologies are being created and improved in order to amplify the player experience. URComped CEO, Craig Shacklett, interviews Hard Rock Cincinnati’s VP of Table Games, Bennie Mancino, to learn more about these developments, his history in the industry, and tips for table game players! Listen to podcast version.

Topics discussed include:

• Bennie Mancino’s upbringing in the casino industry
• Table game changes
• New technologies
• The push to go cashless
• Inventing new table games
• Tracking table games “What the pit boss looks for”
• Maximizing your comps as a table game player

Full Transcript Below

(0:00-0:44) Craig Shacklett: Hi everybody. Craig from URComped here with a Comped Travel Interview. We’ve got a very special guest. This is an interview
I am super excited about. I used to work in the casino. I don’t know a lot about it. And we’ve got a guy that knows more than… You’re humble. I know you wouldn’t say more than anybody but I know you’ve got an amazing career. A lot of people and we are going to learn a lot about table games with Bennie Mancino, Vice President of Table Games at Hard Rock Cincinnati. He also runs “B in the Know,” an amazing blog. You should check on YouTube if you want to dive even deeper into table games. Bennie, thanks so much for being here.

(0:44-0:46) Bennie Mancino: Hey Craig. Thanks. Thanks for having me.

(0:46-0:59) CS: So why don’t we start out by talking a little bit about your background. I know now you’re in Cincinnati. But you said that you spent a lot of time in Las Vegas. So why don’t you walk us through your history in the casino business.

(0:59-3:25) BM: Alright. I’m going to run you through about forty years in about forty seconds. So anyway, I was a horse trainer. Believe it or not. I’ve been around in some form of gambling since I was three years old. I was picking tickets up off the grounds of Ascot Park in between Cleveland and Akron when I was three years old. I got into going to the races with my father. He was a tire builder in Akron, Ohio. And that came to love for the racing. And at one point in time I said, “I wanted to be a trainer.” And I thought I could read it out of a book and learn it. Which was like anything you try to read. It just ain’t the same thing. And I end-up being a groom. And then became a trainer. Won four training titles Northfield Park back in the early 80’s. And I was very successful. Twenty two horse stables. And then like all good stories sometimes it doesn’t have a happy ending. And my main owner, who owns seventeen horses, died a horrible death of cancer. And I watched that as a young man. And it really didn’t go with my psyche. And I just said, “I need a change. I need to get out of this.” And the only other thing I knew by luck. And this is an amazing story. Is that one of my owners run “Casino Nights.” And part of the deal to train his horse, was I had to deal for him when I wasn’t training horses or not racing. And so I did that on the weekends. And that’s all I think I learned. I learned to deal a “Cash Crap Game.”
And now I got this great idea. Go home and tell my girlfriend, who is now my wife of twenty six years, “Hey. Great idea. I’m going to go to Vegas and become a Casino Dealer. And if that don’t work out, they’re building a track in California and I should have my mind cleared by then and we’ll go for it.” So that’s the story I go out. I learned I have to go to a dealing school. Because I don’t know how to really deal with chips or cards or Blackjack. I don’t know nothing about that. We don’t “Cash Crap Game.” And I learned to deal. I start dealing. I got bored with dealing the one game. Learned all the games. Got bored with knowing all the games. They said, “Hey. Do you want to be a dual-rate floor person?” I’m like, “What’s that?” And I found out that was being a floor person part-time. And one thing led to another. And I just kept learning and growing. Now I’m Vice President of a beautiful casino in Cincinnati.

(3:25-3:30) CS: What was the first casino you worked at in Las Vegas?

(3:30-5:40) BM: Oh. So I could tell the story for… It could go on forever. So my first casino in Las Vegas… I went for an interview which is an audition. When you’re a dealer, you got to go and you got to perform the game in front of people. It’s three in the morning at the El Cortez. This is early 80’s. Las Vegas Boulevard down there at that time of night was not the place it is now. Very seedy. Very scary for a mid-western boy to see this. So I got scared when I went down the elevator and got in the El Cortez and the scene. Just about threw me into a panic. And I said, “I can’t deal here. I can’t deal here at three in the morning.” So I actually blew the audition at the El Cortez because I didn’t want to deal there. I pitched the cards over the player’s shoulders and paid losers and everything. The guy who taught me how to deal Blackjack, I call him the next day. And he says, “Bennie, you failed an audition at the El Cortez.” And I said, “Yes,
I did.” And he says, “Nobody fails an audition at El Cortez!” I said, “I was nervous man.” Because I didn’t want to tell him I just didn’t want to deal there. Because he would never have set me on another audition. So he sends me to an even greater venue the next day. Which is the Poker Palace, North Las Vegas. It’s been there for about sixty years. For a table place. Went there day shift. It looked really nice. I’m like, “Yeah. This ain’t bad. I can deal with this as the first job.” At the Poker Palace you spend your first week on day shift. And then you went to swing shift. And let me tell you something, Craig. Coming out of that building at night was probably had to be similar to Baghdad middle siege. Yeah. The Poker Palace at Las Vegas. That short story. That’s where I started.

(5:40-5:57) CS: That’s amazing. You obviously were successful. You kept taking bigger positions. And it sounds like move casino to casino. So then what was your last gig in Vegas before coming back to Cincinnati?

(5:57-6:58) BM: Well, my longest run in Vegas was coincidentally the Hard Rock, Las Vegas for twelve and a half years. And then I got the opportunity to take a Director’s job downtown. And I was Director at table games for the D and the Golden Gate for Derek Stevens. Then I moved on to the Downtown Grand as Director Casino Operations. That was my last job. And then my wife got a job here in Ohio as Executive Director of the Ohio Harness Horsemen’s Association.
And I came out here with the intent of just training. We still had ten horses. I just had the intent of training a couple of the horses and taking care of my daughter which we had late in life. Somebody found out I was out here. And one thing led to another. And I got back into the casino business for the Jack Entertainment. Which they ended up selling the Cincinnati property to Hard Rock. Which I couldn’t resist staying with something that I had loved for so long during that twelve years in Vegas.

(06:58-7:27) CS: Over the years, I’m sure you’ve seen table games shifting a lot. With these changes due to the corona virus, have you ever seen… No one’s ever seen anything like this? But have you ever seen.. as a leader been forced to come up with new strategies and new tactics this quickly. What has this been like for you as a leader thinking how do we re-open games? How many people do we put at the table? What do we do? What has this been like for you?

(7:27-9:37) BM: Nobody’s been through a pandemic. But we have been through some significant financial events. The 911 affected the business. The market crash. The mortgage crash of 2007-08 was a big… And you had to on the fly figure out how to turn your business around and do more with less. The good thing about it though, both them incidents 2001: the 911 and the mortgage crash. I was at the Hard Rock. And Hard Rock was very calm about table games and resiliency. It was amazing. The only thing that got in our way at the Hard Rock, Las Vegas was we were the last company to do one of these big gigantic mega expansions. We build another tower. We took our table games from eighty games to a hundred and forty seven. We had more table games than the MGM Grand when we finished our construction. And downsizing to a new normal was something we had to do on the fly. But our base business never really changed that much. It was there. Our crowd at the Hard Rock was just oblivious to world events. They just came back and they want to party. And they want to have a hard rock time. Doing that now in this environment is a little tougher. There is no high fives. There is no fist bumps. None of that stuff that we normally do in our world. Now we’ve had to figure out how to amplify the service and doing that with a mask on you. Sometimes you talk to a person with a mask on
they feel that you’re being short or rough. They can’t tell. They can’t see the expression on your face. So it takes a lot to… It’s a big conversion, Craig, from the life we’ve known. And I think we’ll be in this for several more months. And it’s just something we got to perfect as we go along. Nobody knows how. There’s no playbook.

(9:37-9:47) CS: Are most of the jurisdictions mandating how many people can sit at a table? Or there has to be plexiglass or anything like that? Or how much is left up to the property?

(9:47-11:24) BM: Well, the thing is that the Wynn Resort in Las Vegas wrote this Bible. The first book of Wynn on how to come back after a pandemic. And I always said, “People took this like it was the constitution.” The day it came out I had six calls from operators, “What do you think about this?” I said, “This is Wynn trying to get back open.” They started off with version 2.1. And by the time they open the doors it was 3.7, was the version of this plan that they were on. It changed. It evolved. Some of the very strict protocols which they should have stuck to, if they would of stuck to the protocols to begin with, Las Vegas may not be in the precarious position it is right now which it’s in a dire straits. Yeah. So a lot of jurisdictions. Hey. I don’t have to do the work. Wynn did this great plan… A lot of it was three players on my Blackjack game. To be honest, there’s no social distancing in a table game. No matter which way or where you do the math or how you pull the tape measure, you’re not going to get the six feet. So if I’m not wearing a mask and you’re not wearing a mask, we’re in big trouble. But if we’re both wearing a mask and we sanitize our hands, there’s a good chance we’re not going to get the virus at a table game. Yeah. Most jurisdictions have adopted some form of the original Wynn plan which end-up becoming Nevada gamings plan.

(11:24-11:39) CS: It is interesting. As a leader you have to think about to… How much is placebo effect? We have to do this so customers feel comfortable versus how much is actually going to prevent the spread of a virus.

(11:39-13:05) BM: Yeah. It depends on how much of the media coverage you have absorbed. You can see the people who just constantly stayed on CNN and never left the TV. They’re absolutely scared to death. They’re putting hand sanitizer on top of gloves. We can’t have on a hand-held table game. But they’re doing that because that’s how paranoid they are. I don’t think that does you any good. That’s my opinion. But depending on your exposure to the media or your tolerance for this virus depends on what kind of optic we have to give you. And a lot of it is optics. But I’ll tell you I’m very proud of working for this company here because we went to the far extreme to begin with. Hard Rock International mandated plexiglass on every table game that could possibly be on. It’s kind of hard to get the right kind of plexi to be safe. You mean you have more chance of tripping over something than catching the virus. But besides that we’ve got plexi on almost every game. In between the games. Everything. We have a requirement right off the bat that the players and the dealers wear masks. Everybody has the option of wearing gloves if and when they want them on.

(13:05-13:10) CS: So are these plexiglass sales people are they sitting on yachts right now? Is this the best year they had?

(13:10-14:05) BM: Well, I’ll tell you what. When you sell a piece of six-foot plexiglass for twelve hundred dollars, you got to be doing something right. Yeah. Something right. Because that’s basically all you’re getting is a six-feet piece of plexiglass on a Blackjack game with a couple metal rods that costs about seventy five cents. And there you go. But you know what somebody was smart enough to come up with the idea and put it out there. Yeah. They’re making bank now. And believe it or not, they made more in the last month than they made to begin with. Because a lot of people didn’t adopt.Some of the Arizona property is they either tried to make their own or they didn’t. They had that big surge down there. And from what I’m hearing from the vendors some of them it’s a three and four-week turn-around time compared to they were shipping them out immediately when we got ours.

(14:05-14:25) CS: Any other new technologies that you’re being pitched that you guys are considering that are directly related to the current situation. And then I love to later get on to just kind of cool new technologies you’re seeing. Because I know that’s something you’re doing with “B in the Know” your blog on YouTube. But what about any other tech COVID-related?

(14:25-15:45) BM: Well, there’s a big push to go cashless. In table games I think the dirtiest thing we deal with is money. Chips. Every property that I know of wash their chips in one form or another. Either with a professional company or in just a regular two hundred and twelve degree bar dishwasher. Everybody wash their chips. So the chip should come out and they’re absolutely spotless. You got a dealer who’s putting hand sanitizer on their hands. You got a player who’s putting hand sanitizer on their hands. So they’re pretty clean. But what do you do with the money? You got all this stuff clean in the minute that guy pulls that money out of his pocket. We got it sanitize up. So but cashless entry into a game is something that’s going to come. And there’s a couple systems right out there now that allow you to do an ATM transaction. I think one of them is called “Pay as You Go” or something. And they have them at several properties at Las Vegas. The problem with that is that some of the outlying jurisdictions: Ohio, Pennsylvania, New York. To get the new technology through it could take quite some time. And maybe this COVID pandemic will expedite some of the approvals for them cashless options.

(15:45-16:25) CS: Understood. That makes sense. And I could definitely see that. I guess on slot machines it went from money and coins. And now ticket in and ticket out. Now, they’re talking a lot about same thing. We’re just buying with your phone and then cash out or whatever. That’d be interesting. When new technologies come in is it hard to train your staff? Because on a slot machine you put in a new technology. You need to train a Slot Tech. But with table games you have a lot more human interaction. Is that something you have to consider when looking at new technology?

(16:25-16:54) BM: It’s the same as the considering a brand-new table game. If it isn’t something your three-year-old can handle you better not bring it into the game because it’s not going to be successful. It’s got to be bomb proof. And most of these technologies I’ve seen, I’ve seen at G2E are fairly simple. They’re like you said. They’re nothing more than a tap to your phone and an amount. And it’s pretty seamless process.

(16:54-17:04) CS: Talk about new table games, what’s the last new table game that you remember seeing that stuck?

(17:04-17:19) CS: Because I know I’ve been G2E and there’s always some table games like you said. I probably have the mind of a three-year-old. And I’m watching like I don’t get this. There’s no hope. But what’s the last game that you can remember that came in and it actually stuck around?

(17:19-20:26) BM: Believe it or not, I invented two games that are only at Hard Rock, Cincinnati and in our Jack, Cleveland. They are under different names.
When I was with the Jack Entertainment they loved innovation. And they promoted that. And they allowed me to develop two games. One is “Jack-Jack.” At Hard Rock it’s changed its name to Hard Rockin 21. And then I had a side bet which very kind of similar to Bonus Craps but not quite. It works in a different way. It was called “Hot Hand Dice” for Jack Entertainment. Which they have it in their property in Cleveland. And we have it as “Hard Rockin Dice” down in Cincinnati. And I came up with them two games and they’ve been very, very popular. The thing is if we expand past our properties then we would have to get into the vendor licensing and stuff like it. So a lot places if you gonna want to play, if you’re gonna go to one of them two properties but very popular like Rockin 21 has thirteen units in Cincinnati. Just smoking. And it’s a very simple game. Talking about simplicity. Well, all it is if you got two cards that are a Blackjack and they’re black you get paid two to one. Where do you get two to one on Blackjack in the world? But you do at Hard Rock, Cincinnati. And two red cards pays three to two. And the only drawback, you got one bad pay-off. The red and black pays even money. So that’s all there is to Rockin 21. Very, very simple. And the Hard Rockin Dice it’s just a matter of the points before seven or the horn numbers before seven. That’s all it is. And the three names that the bets are the six string, the fab four, and the tenor. And the thing about it compared to like Bonus Craps, a lot of people say, “God. I almost hit it.” Because they got nine out of ten. On nine out of ten on Hard Rockin Dice you still get twenty to one. My game’s done really well. As far as the outside vendors, Crisscross Poker is a one of the newer games. It’s for AGS that’s caught on, caught fire. We still got the games that out there that are few years older. But like free bet they’re still smoking industry. Everybody loves free bet. But as far as new games, it’s been kind of a dry spell for something really major crushing the market. And we were talking last night. I was talking to Brent Weiss of Money$uit. And he’s got a great new game called “Advantage Three-Card Fury” that he’s trying to get out into the market. But we went over the pitfalls of developing a game. If any of your viewers want to know what it’s really like to become a… Come up with this idea and what it takes to get it to flourish. Watch the most recent episode of “B in the Know” with Brent and you’ll find out. He’s actually a lawyer which means it makes it better. He knows all the legalese of getting your game patent and etcetera.

(20:26-20:55) CS: Yes. I highly encourage you guys to go listen to that. Now I have one more question. You can make it quick. I want everyone to go to watch that video. What is the upside of developing a game? So it sounds like it’s a slog to get one in. I assume there must be a pay-off. So what is it? Is it generally like you have to track the handle? How much goes through the game? And the inventory gets a little cut of that. Or how does it normally work if you get your game in a casino?

(20:55-22:14) BM: Prior to… Well, even now if you’re an individual operator vendor with a game you get a lease fee every month. So like the games that sigh games have…now they’ve come up with some suit prices which I incorporate so I get all the games for a certain price. Because people’s palette changes. So you may have people all want to play Ultimate Texas Hold’em. So you put three of them in for seven months. Now one of them goes kind of dead. And you want to change it to a Mississippi Stud. Well, the suit allows you to change around these games. But prior to the suits you paid on each individual game.
And one of the most expensive games was like Three Card Poker depending on your lease arrangement and your size of your property. You could be paying
as much as twenty seven hundred dollars a month for one game. So you just do the math how many Three Card Pokers there is in the United States and Europe and everywhere. So that’s where the gold comes in. If you strike it and you hit a game like Three Card Poker you’re an instant millionaire. But that’s not the norm. That’s the dream of everybody. So they’re all trying to become the next Three Card Poker because it was a million-dollar idea. Very simple.

(22:14-22:46) CS: Wow. So transitioning to table games operations. So our core business is URComped and based on how much a player plays they get comped different amounts. Table game players are very concerned with what their average bet is, how long are they logged in for. How does that work? Because I know it’s a kind of gray area that a lot of people don’t understand. Somebody sits down. They buy-in. They start playing. How is their rating tracked?

(22:46-24:10) BM: Yeah. Well, this is a great question. Because I don’t know how many times a week you have a player come up and say, “They missed that two hundred dollars. I just bought it in an extra two…” That buy-in is virtually meaningless. It would have a place in a VIP. Somebody who’s buying-in tens of thousands of dollars. But if your floorman misses a hundred dollars you don’t panic. What you need them to do is get your average bet and the time played right. And if you want to confirm that, the best place to do it is before you leave the game. Make sure your average bet is what it is. You might even be able to, I didn’t say this on national broadcast, but you may be able to say, “Hey. They only got me a twenty-five. I was at thirty-five.” And they may give you the thirty-five which is good for you. You just boosted your re-investment. But you’re right. Average bet time played is key unless it’s a quick loss. If you come in and you dump five thousand in five minutes, you got no time on the device. You’ve got actually no theo build up. So what do I comp you? I will comp you on that quick loss and most the quick losses. Usually like twenty percent of your loss will give you back in some kind of reinvestment.

(24:10-24:31) CS: Got it. And so players playing. Some people have progressive betting systems or they’re just feeling it. And they start betting more because they got a hot streak. And the pit boss doesn’t come around for a while. And that you’re saying maybe it might be a good idea for them to mention something before they leave the table that they’re bet had gone up.

(24:31-25:46) BM: Right. Depending on how you play, I would make your first bet your highest bet. Because we can talk about this and like… When you got guys, especially when you’re in a section of a guy watching eight games, he’s not watching your game consistently. Our method at the Hard Rock and my method lifetime is to try to take three different samples of the players bet every fifteen minutes of their play. And that’s the first bet of course. Fifty minutes should go look again. Fifty minutes after that you’re going to look again. You’re going to see and you come up with an average. Someday. Somewhere. Somebody is going to develop the holy grail. Where bet recognition takes care of all that. And re- investments exactly right. Cameras either going to read your chips. Right now that technology is there but it’s so expensive with the RFI which is a little transmitter inside the chip. That’s just not practical to do except for the huge Asian multi-million dollar in destinations.

(25:46-26:04) CS: I was going to ask you about that. Because I have heard… I feel like since I worked in the casino 2008 there’s been talk about, “Oh yeah. There’s gonna be magnets in the chips. And it’ll read everything.” And then like you mentioned the video technology. So is it really just a cost issue that has kept that from being more widespread?

(26:04-27:18) BM: Yeah. And that the RFI they’re radio frequency transmitters from the chips and picking them up as the technology is never ever… Now we had the first beta which was amazing. And in the Hard Rock twenty years ago. And twenty years we still haven’t got the technology down to a price where it’s reasonable for the normal operator. But several NRT a couple of these vendors, they’re really close with the camera technology. And what they will do is read your chips from the sides through two colors and patterns on the chips. And it’ll be able to tell the denomination and how many chips you have? I’ve seen the technology at G2E which I tried to tear up. And I set multiple rainbow bets eight times. And six out of the eight they got it right. But two out of the eight they didn’t get right to a huge amount of money. So it’s got to be a perfect. But it’s coming. It’s coming. And whoever does it first you talk about the game like getting another Creek Arbor. Whoever gets that first bet recognition down to where it’s flawless is a billion-dollar company overnight.

(27:18-27:51) CS: Alright. Well, let me add that to my to-do list for today. So I mentioned with URComped we do have a lot of comp-level players. Our sweet spot though is we’re not dealing with a 100 K, million dollar players. So very rarely have we been dealing with a player where we kind of asked to negotiate special rules on table games. But we have done it. But again not too often. Tell us about that like at what level do you start entertaining slight tweaks to Blackjack rules? And then what does that do for the odds of the game?

(27:51-29:21) BM: Craig, I don’t get that much in like Cincinnati of that kind of activity. But when I was in Las Vegas, we did do a lot of special limits and deals. And there’s actually, deal sheets. I’m sure you’re aware of that when you get to that point in time. And what you would do as a representative you’re going to tell me what you think your players going to bet. He’s going to play four hours on roulette at a five hundred dollars average. Well, I’m going to know right then and there what our expectation of return on investment is. And I’m going to judge how much I’m going to give him or how much vulnerability. Because we don’t always win. But believe it or not the casinos do not always win. So we got to be prepared for that particular situation to kick in. And some players are so big, they’re way beyond the bankroll of a casino. If that plays out, I’m going to say, “Craig, you might want to try the Bellagio because I just can’t take this guy’s act.
I can’t give him the deal he wants to come in the door.” And you’re right. There will be multiple hands. Might be three hands of fifteen thousand. Well, I got to say, “Well this guy can beat me for 3.2 million dollars.” Apparently this is my threshold of loss that I’m willing to take to gain this whatever fifty thousand dollars in guaranteed return on investments. That’s how it works. Believe it or not. That’s the big secret.

(29:21-29:35) CS: I’m trying to remember what some like Blackjack it’s like dealer doesn’t hit on a soft seventeen. Or what are some of the most common exceptions to the rules for these high-end Blackjack players for example?

(29:35-30:38) BM: A lot of them want to re-split aces. They’ll want to surrender. They want you to stand on seventeen. Someone will want you to take all the fives out the deck. Which isn’t gonna happen. But it gets pretty extreme sometimes. But that’s the key rules for a high-end Blackjack player would be standing on seventeen, re-splitting aces, doubling after the split even to the point of maybe taking a third card on a thing. It’s been done. With craps. It’s always the limits on the props. It’s a limits on the… It’s extra bets. Put bets on top which is doubling up on a number. It can get pretty crazy. Especially craps the multiple is just gigantic. If you don’t know your math as an operator when you’re dealing with somebody like this you can you can lose your job in one bad decision.

(30:38-30:53) CS: Well, you’ve avoided those bad decisions over several years. Is there anything we didn’t cover today that is interesting or something for our listeners to think about?

(30:53-31:51) BM: Comping is a thing that’s very… I think it’s a compers market right now. Because the activity is to make the guests happy. And we’re really in a bad place right now. Like I told you with a mask on I can’t smile at you and make you happy. You can push the envelope as a person looking to get a little bit of increased re-investment. I think you can push that envelope now. And I got to tell you, if you get a survey from a casino, fill it out. Because you may get a call from somebody who’s willing to just give you the world. And I would tell the truth because we do kind of have a manual for those who like to embellish the truth. But you know what if you really had a problem or you didn’t think something worked out for you. Even if it’s minor tell. And that could get you an extra steak dinner. Could get you a comped buffet that you weren’t normally going to get.

(31:51-31:56) CS: Awesome. Well Bennie, this has been fascinating for me. I hope you enjoyed it.

(31:56-33:06) BM: Yes. I love all facets of this industry from marketing. I’ve been around some of the great marketers though whale hunting in the desert known Steve for thirty years. And the whole marketing is just a game between me and you. It’s me. I’m trying to get the customer and for the cheapest price though we’re talking about making deals. I want to cut the best deal for the house that the marketing representative or they wanted make the best deal for their player. And it’s been a fun… Like I said I love all facets and I just want to give back. Like I said my motto is paying it forward. And that’s part of what I’m doing in “B in the Know.” I’m trying to get the information out there. We talked earlier and I said right now it’s kind of strictly for the table games operator. But we’re going to expand out to your audience and the player as we get in to the series as “B in the Know” progresses. And we’re going to interview more people who are be a little bit more interesting just to the normal person coming in every day trying to get that return on their investment out there with that forty, fifty-dollar bet.

(33:06-33:17) CS: Well Bennie, thank you so much again. The YouTube channel “B in the Know.” Check it out. He’s got some fascinating stuff on there. And also if somebody wants to get a hold of you is Linked In the best way to find you?

(33:17-33:32) BM: Yeah. Linked In is the best… I’m not much of a Facebook guy. And I’m not much of a Twitter guy. The industry site there with professionals.
I like to stick to one platform in it. LinkedIn is it.

(33:32-33:36) CS: Awesome. Well, thank you so much Bennie. This has been awesome and let’s do it again soon.

(33:36-33:42) BM: Alright, Craig. Thank you.