URComped CEO, Craig Shacklett, interviews the “Godfather of Las Vegas,” Mark Wayman- the top executive recruiter in the casino industry to learn how he got started and came up, tips for casino professionals, what to do if you are looking for a casino executive role, and more. Listen to podcast version.

Topics discussed include:

  • Wayman’s entry into the casino industry
  • The “Godfather of Las Vegas” Weekly Newsletter
  • Where the nickname “The Godfather of Las Vegas” comes from
  • Casino Executive tips
  • What casinos look for in new hires
  • Wayman’s involvement in charitable organizations
  • Importance of having a backup network and tips to achieve one
  • International casino experience
  • Casino Recruiting strategy

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URComped CEO, Craig Shacklett, interviews the “Godfather of Las Vegas,” Mark Wayman- the top executive recruiter in the casino industry to learn how he got started in the industry and came up, tips for casino professionals, what to do if you are looking for a casino executive role, and more!

Full transcript below:

(0:00-0:31) Craig Shacklett: Hi everybody, Craig Shacklett here with another casino business podcast. And we have got a legend in the industry. We have got Mark Wayman, The Godfather of Las Vegas. If you’re an executive, you are in the casino business. I’m sure you know who Mark Wayman is. But Mark for the few people listening that may not know who you are. Tell us a little bit about yourself.

(0:31-2:23) Mark Wayman: Sure. So I was a professional bowler when I was 18, but there was a lot of guys better than me. So I went back to college. And then I was in technology for 20 years. I was very very blessed to be with two software companies. One of them was went public on the NASDAQ and that was okay. But the second one is a real home run. The company called SRD that did… I got there right before 9/11. And after 9/11, we did counterterrorism for the government. Our biggest investor was the CIA. In-Q-Tel which is venture capital on CIA. So I get three years of that. Spend some time in DC. Did some bad guy stuff in the casino’s: money laundering, slot cheats, black book, which is excluded players. And then, we sold that to IBM. And so, I cashed out. I had founder stock. And so, I cash that out. And I went…Bought a racehorse and thought I was done. That was 15 years ago. And a CEO, a friend of mine called and said, “I’m looking for some FBI Talent. Can you help a brother out?” I said, “You know what? I’m done. I’m retired. I bought a racehorse.” “Look, you stood on the board and make-a-wish.” I said, “Yeah.” He said, “I tell you what I do. You do this for me. I’ll give you $50,000 and you give the money to make-a-wish.” And that’s how I started my recruiting business. So I called… Back then it was called Harrah’s Entertainment. And back then it was called Mirage Resorts. I said, “You guys had pay me to do this?” I knew them all from my counterterrorism stuff. And they said, “Yeah.” So I started out mostly doing high-tech. And then, I figured out that 25% of a million dollars is way better than 25 percent of a hundred thousand dollars software developer. And so, I kind of work my way up the food chain. I think most folks would probably tell you that, I don’t want to sound arrogant but I’m probably as big a headhunter as there is in the casino business.

(2:23-2:38) CS: I don’t think anybody would argue with that. When you were in the software business Were you an HR when you are in recruiting? Is that how you were able to transition?

(2:38-3:52) MW: No, it’s like a CIO type. So I was the management DPL Technology CIO. And then, for two-three years I moved over to the sale side. Just because the sales guys quit at the company I was at. And we had nobody to call out and meet the clients. And I liked it. I like meeting people because I’m not a sales guy. I did a couple of things. The first one was I started a newsletter. Most people probably know me more for that than anything else. Because I had a several hundred people in my Rolodex and I couldn’t keep in touch with everyone. So I thought I’ll put this newsletter together. Just kind of be who got hired, who got fired. And that got… That was real popular. Then I started… I went to all the networking events, but I’ve never met anybody that was really going to add value. So I started my own networking event. And I started out with six clients and I said, “Look, we’re going to go to the Foundation Room on the roof of Mandalay. And I’m going to bring Cuban cigars and I’ll pick up your… I don’t drink, but I’ll pick up your Bar bill…” And you guys can meet each other. That’ll be the value proposition is you get to meet other quality people… that these were all CIO’s. The same line of work as you are. And so, that was how I got started with it.

(3:52-4:01) CS: The nickname, The Godfather of Las Vegas to kind of naturally… Because you became the connector or it how did you end that nickname?

(4:01-5:16) MW: So the six guys turned into 50 people. Still no foundation. In one night. I invited the head of sales for EMC to come up. And she walked in the room which was mostly men. And it got kind of quiet for a second. And she was so, “What the hell. Really, The Godfather of Vegas?” And everybody started laughing. And then they started leaving voicemails and stuff. Godfather, I need tickets for Celine or whatever and it just kind of stuck. And I thought, “Well, you know what? It’s true.” I’m kind of a good Godfather. I tried to help a lot of people. My wife and I are both. Very involved with Charity here. When I retired, a friend of mine gave me a book called Halftime by Bob Buford that talked about the first half of your life is about your money and your career, and your house, and your car. But at halftime at some point you say, “What’s my legacy? How will I be remembered? What’s my real purpose?” Because it isn’t, placing people in jobs. “What’s my purpose in life?” And so, I thought… I’ve been a taker for 45 years and maybe I should try to give back. My dad used to say, “If you take the elevator to the top, make sure you send it back down for everybody else.”

(5:16-5:43) CS: Well, I definitely want to get into more of your charity work in a little bit. Because I know you do a lot of things that I think a lot of people probably don’t know about. Now going back to… The start of your career, the newsletter where… Because everybody likes to hear, “Oh, who end up where…” You say, “Somebody got a job. They’re pumped that you’re spreading the word.” Does anybody ever get offended that, “Ah man, he’s telling people that I got whacked?…”

(5:43-6:18) MW: So on the new hires, I always get those good… I’m glad you asked. Because I’ve got like seven or eight that started this month. And so I always ask the candidate that got hired if it’s okay? If they’re okay with it being in a newsletter. I also, ask the hiring company if it’s okay. For instance, Interblock… Everybody’s hearing this for the first time. Interblock, which makes electronic table games was just acquired by Oaktree Capital Management private equity firm. So I had to go to the CEO John Conway. I do a lot of work for John and say, “Is that okay to put into newsletter or is it some big secret?” But he said, “No no no. He goes, I’d be happy to have it in there.

(6:18-6:34) CS: Like you said, you’ve got it start with an event with six. Now it’s grown, and grown, and grown. What habits do you have to maintain your network beyond… I guess the event and your newsletter?

(6:34-7:45) MW: Well, that’s probably 75-80% of it. I do try to… Every day you touch five or ten people. Whether that’s a phone call. Mostly email. “How are you doing?” Sometimes I send out some mass emails and say, “Here’s what’s going on in Las Vegas.” I’m very fortunate to consider Steve Sisolak a friend, our governor. Especially in Asia, I do a lot of work in Asia. There’s a lot of ex-pats down there that want to know, “What’s going on up here?” I’m not a very good sales guy. Some people say, “I don’t think I am.” If I get a job.. lets say “Right now, I’ve got a like a $354,000 CFO role.” I’ll put together an email to a 120 CFO’s and say, “Look, I’ve got a roll and it looks like this. If you want to volunteer great. If you know somebody though, I’m really looking for referrals. Who do we know that would be a really good fit for that?” Obviously with 5,000 people in my Rolodex. I know a few, it’ll probably work. But referrals are a real lifeline. They really help me out.

(7:45-7:57) CS: I’ve heard from people that you work with Vegas is known for late nights. But you start your day super early. Is that right? I’ve heard 5:30 phone calls maybe once in a while.

(7:57-9:44) MW: Yeah. My father was an alcoholic. He was a phenomenal man. They fought at Normandy, he was 101st Airborne. I’m looking at this picture over here. He was an alcoholic and unfortunately I inherited that gene. I was an alcoholic, but I’ve been sober for years now. And so, I did my late-night partying when I was younger. As you know, nothing good happens after midnight Las Vegas is out. Since I started the business The difference between being on salary and owning the businesses… And you know this because you own URComped. When you’re on salary, you get a salary and sick days, and vacation days. And you become an entrepreneur you get nothing. If you don’t sell you don’t eat. I remember in 2008. I had a dry spell. When everything fell apart in August 2008. And I didn’t sell anything for three or four months. And it was a little bit scary But it shifted my timeline around to waking up at 4:00 a.m. Because Asian guys were still around. I think that makes it… I don’t know, three or four in the afternoon down there. And said, “I just got in the habit of getting up at 4 a.m. But I’ll tell you what, I turn my phone off at 4:00 p.m. The end. It stays in the office. I don’t respond to anything. After 4 p.m. Whatever it is, it can wait till the morning. I’ll never forget. I had Felix Rappaport. The legend. He is a casino president with MGM forever. And I’m interviewing for the CEO role at the Foxwoods. And I got up one morning and there were three voicemails from Felix. He said, “Mark at 7:30 p.m. Why are you not taking my calls?” I apologize to Felix. “Ät 4:00 p.m. buddy, I’m done”

(9:44-9:56) CS: I’ve heard it said that “In today’s era of 24/7 accessibility being inaccessible is actually a status symbol. So good on you for…

(9:56-10:45) MW: Occurring business is a 24/7. I think I provide a very high level of customer service the way I like to put is, “I love Costco. I shop at Costco.” “This is not Costco. This is Nordstrom’s, right?” And then, “That is a high level of customer service you get me directly? This isn’t Korn Ferry or you get shuffled off to,, a partner signs you and you get an associate.” I mean you get me personally every time that also refers to compensation. I don’t have the B players and there are lots, and lots, and lots of B players. I have the Rolexes. I don’t have the Timex’s. I have a Timex. I wore a Timex. The same Timex, right? So you’re going to probably have to be above market rate on your compensation or you’re not going to see many candidates from me.

(10:45-11:04) CS: Now, do you feel… I know in recruiting there’s some people are like, “Oh, we’ve got this 72 point assessment… Is your strategy… Is it just you know everybody and you hear a roll and you’re like, “I know the perfect guy.” Is that a gut feel? What’s kind of your system for getting the right candidate in the right spot?

(11:04-12:47) MW: That is the best question of a client can ask me. And I have three new clients this week that were referred to me. Never worked with them in 20 years. All tribal. And they’ve been searching for people for months and they can’t get anyone Because nobody wants to move during a pandemic. But I… My pitch is always the same. People hire me for two reasons. The first reason is I have 5,000 gaming executives in my Rolodex. So I’ve been around a long time. The second reason is because I know where all the skeletons are buried. I know if they don’t put drugs, alcohol, sexual harassment, embezzlement. Nobody puts that on their resume. I know why everybody got fired. When I pitch a candidate, I usually know 10 to 20 years of their backstory. Where they were at? Why they left? Do they have any personal issues? Because 75% Casino, 25% high-tech. Like IGT, and Scientific Games, and Enter Block. It’s the casino industry is not a good place for people who don’t have self-discipline. The first question out of my mouth for the candidate is, Do we have any compliance issues that are going to affect our gaming license? Criminal record, DUI, Tax Liens, any kind of financial problems. Because it’s coming out on the application. You might as well just tell me. So mostly I know everybody I’m submitting. 10% referrals 90% candidates I know. But I do put them through a series of a dozen questions just so, I want to make sure the money is right. I want to make sure they can relocate. Make sure there’s no compliance issues that we need to disclose upfront. So that’s kind of how I qualify people.

(12:47-13:29) CS: Your LinkedIn feed… If anybody’s not following you on LinkedIn, I highly recommend doing it. Because you drop tips, you drop updates like you do in your newsletter, and you drop a lot of wisdom. And one thing I noticed that you’ve talked about which is similar to a lot of football coaches. Let say, “The game is not won on Sunday. It’s won in the practice leading up to the week.” And you say, Executives… “The time to network is not when you’re out of work. The time to build network is when you’re working.” So I guess for executives maybe now that do have a job. What are one or two tips that you would give them to make sure that… If that axe drops, unfortunately. How can they be in the best possible position to land the next job quickly?

(13:29-16:27) MW: Yeah. So there’s two golden rules of executive recruiting and all this stuff was taught to me actually by a guy named Kevin Rosenberg at BridgeGate. He has a retained firm down and it’s a boutique recruiting firm and its down LLC. The first rule is the wrong time to meet an executive recruiter’s when you’re unemployed. Bad bad timing, because you need to understand the second rule. And that is, I get people for jobs. I don’t get jobs for people. Okay. I’ve got 23 searches going. I can’t stop for all the cold calls. And the fact that you’re in crisis. It’s not that I don’t have compassion for the candidate situation. But if I don’t sell, I don’t eat, right? And I’ve got every one of my clients. God bless them. They got a sense of urgency. When a guy sends over CFO, because he needs them now. “He doesn’t need him six months from now.” And so I’m under a significant amount of pressure to produce. And right now believe it or not. I know there’s a lot of unemployment, but I work on mostly 200,000 over the really high-end stuff. And finding candidates is really tough sledding. I mean, nobody wants to relocate. Most people don’t want to change jobs because of what’s going on with the virus. So it’s pretty challenging. And Kevin gave me the best advice that anyone ever gave me with regard to executive recruiting. In 2004 we had breakfast. And he was helping me because I didn’t know how to be a recruiter. And he said Mark, the pendulum always swings. Let me explain this to you. He said, “This 2004, there’s 4% unemployment. And everybody has a job. Nobody returns your call. Everybody kicks dirt on you. Nobody needs your help.” He said, “Mark one day the pendulum will swing and when it does all those guys that treated you poorly are going to be back pleading for your help.” August 2008. The pendulum swung. I never text, phone calls, emails. It was unbelievable. And then, guess what? February 2020 same thing again. The way you treat people goes to character. The other thing is that I have an excluded list when I worked for the government for the CIA and the FBI. We had excluded list. Those were very very bad people. I have an excluded list of people that have burned me on the past. Whether a lot of people lie. They lie about their education. They lie about their title. They lie about their compensation. Well, guess what? When you get the job offer, we’re gonna check. And if you lied about something you’re out. I’ve only had two people in 15 years, fail compliance. One guy failed the drug test. Believe it or not, a CFO. Once again, I know almost everybody that I submit because my reputation hangs on every resume. I don’t take chances.

(16:27-16:37) CS: Are you seeing a shift in what casinos are looking for in their hires either new positions or titles being created or maybe same titles, but new skills that casinos are looking for?

(16:37-17:51) MW: Not really. We kept very quiet February, March, April. When everything reopen a lot of people didn’t go back to work. Because they were on the government dull… And then literally could make more money on unemployment than they could have. That was the biggest challenge for all casinos. They couldn’t get people to come back. It got very active obviously because of that. And then, it kind of got a little quiet over the summer. But believe it or not. It picked up in December. I think the reason its so active right now is because of the dearth of candidates. There’s not a lot of people available really not the people you want to hire. Hiring companies think they can just put an ad on Casino careers Or indeed, And they’re going to get a lot of candidates. One of the new client said to me, “Mark, we are hiring candidates on the first day and we didn’t interview one.” I said, “Here’s a problem with the online postings, right? Even if you see somebody who looks good. How do you know they weren’t fired for sexual harassment? There was a guy that got hired recently and has been fired for sexual harassment three times. How do you not do your due diligence and know this?” So anyway…

(17:51-18:07) CS: Talking to you for just the last 15 minutes… It’s clear that you’re made for that… You’re in the perfect role. But let’s say, you weren’t an executive recruiter. And obviously, you did software, you’re CIO. Is there any other career that you once in a while think about, “Ah, man. That would have been fun. I would have been really good at that.”

(18:07-19:37) MW: When I was growing up. I want to be a Forest Ranger because I like Pets. My wife and I are very involved in some pet charities. Including Noah’s Animal House, which is the pet portion of the Shade Tree Women’s shelter. Because I like being outside. We like going hiking. My wife and I, we were World Travelers for five or six years till the pandemic. hit. I was very blessed. I was down in Macau last year twice because I placed an Executive Vice President and Senior Vice president. And so they really enjoyed going to Macau and Hong Kong. We went on Safari in Africa, but we did Antarctica which I loved, but do it once that’s it. There’s a saying you never get rich working for somebody else. And I was always that IBM type of guy. That wanted the safe career with the steady paycheck. But once I got over to… And again, I was just blessed. I was the right guy at the right time with the counter-terrorism stop. It wasn’t that I was that much smarter than anybody else. I would just went to a company. That was really well run. And so we did well. I can’t imagine going back to this. I really enjoy doing this. I really enjoy helping people that are in a tight spot and need a job. And then, to this day every time, I place them one. We donate a portion of each placement to charity.

(19:37-19:53) CS: Yeah. And why don’t we talk about that? We touched on briefly earlier, but one thing I admire… And I know a lot of people admire is how involved you are not just with the donations. I understand you’re on some boards of different charitable organizations. So maybe talk a little bit about some of the charitable organizations you’re involved with.

(19:53-21:29) MW: Well, John Wall, who is just a legendary casino executive. He was part of Binion’s… His resume is too long. He owns house advantage that makes software… And he got me involved with make-a-wish. He was the vice-chairman. I think he might still be. He was chairman or, vice-chairman. He aged out then you come back as chairman. And I funded a wish for a young lady that horse racing wish. And I own racehorses. Here we go. There’s my racehorses back up there on the wall. Yeah. But they’re there. Anyway, I was on the board of make-a-wish. Big brothers, big sisters opportunity village. But mostly, the Charities. We support them financially and then when they host big events up until last year, we would buy a table. I’d sell tables. I would get them to swat experience for their live auction. Plus have some really really great friends on this trip. Bill Macbeth at Cosmopolitan would always put in. Sheldon Adelson at the Venetian would always put in an option package. And so that is how we added value. My wife was very involved with the shade tree women’s shelter. She was on the board for years. More recently, we just try to do the financial part of it. The time commitment to do a great job for a charity is extensive. And so I found that introducing them to other donors and writing checks was probably the best way for me to contribute.

(21:29-21:49) CS: Now, you mentioned horse racing. You gave us a little glimpse. And by the way, before we start. I’d said, you’ve already won the award for best backdrop of any interview I’ve done. You were involved with horse racing. Do you have a favorite horse or favorite winning wager in your horse racing career?

(21:49-22:38) MW: …the Filly that won. She lost her last race i know, but She was actually was undefeated. That was the horse that we took Zoe, the girl from make-a-wish. She’s just 14 years old at cystic fibrosis. And so I flew her around the country to watch Zenyatta. Win all those races. I invested in horses for about 10 years and…Im not in them right now. But it was just a passion. And for those that have a problem with horse racing. I guarantee the horses get treated better. better than I do. Horses are like gold. We love our horses and… Anyway, it’s a great hobby, but the only way to make.. To make a million dollars in horse racing. You start with 3 or 5 million. Not a good investment.

(22:38-22:42) CS: So you’re in Las Vegas, do you play? You play any games?

(22:42-23:17) MW: Oh yeah. I like video poker. And I like horse racing is still played horses quite a bit. I have some friends that own horses. I actually did work for one of my idols this year… Well, he’s ECL gaming but he’s Winchell Thoroughbreds. And he owns half-million million-dollar horses… He is way out of my league. And then he and his friend Marc Falcone. Marc was the COO of Station Casinos and they bought Kentucky Downs and they own their own race track. Now that’s money when you supply your own race track.

(23:17-23:29) CS: So Mark you mentioned sports betting. I know you’re a sports fan. We’re filming this January 20th. So it’s before the NFC and AFC championship games. Do you have a favorite to win the Super Bowl?

(23:29-24:04) MW: I think it’s Green Bay. And I think Kansas City. Buffalo is playing so good right now. I thought Green Bay give the points this weekend. And Kansas City I wouldn’t touch that game, but I’ll be rooting for them. But you know what? Last year I loved The Rams. And I bet on them strong in the super bowl. And I got Tom Bradyized. Double checked. I don’t think Tampa Bay can be there playing Kansas City, right?

(24:04-24:09) CS: Tampa Bay is playing Green Bay… Oh Yeah. Kansas City verse the Bills.

(24:09-24:12) MW: Guy, I love Tom Brady. But Green Bay looks good.

(24:12-24:20) CS: Yeah, I think Mahomes isn’t too rattled from that concussion.

(24:20-24:27) MW: I got a ride the Chiefs would be my bet. Like Tom Brady is just one of Those guys who don’t know how to lose. Yeah. He can be on three touchdowns in the fourth quarter is not gonna like…

(24:27-24:50) CS: Yeah, as a 9’ers fan. I know that intimately well. My heart still broken from it. Mark, this has been so interesting. There’s a million questions I could ask you, but I know that you are busy. I guess in the last few seconds… Is there anything I forgot to ask you that maybe the audience would like to know? Any closing tips?

(24:50-26:07) MW: Yeah, so I didn’t really give the tips on the executive recruiting thing. Here’s the thing, you need to have one or two executive recruiters in your pockets. Someone of you have a good relationship with that you stay friendly with… So if you lose your job… Look, 85% of the jobs come through your personal network. Your professional hour. 10% come through executive recruiters. And then, the rest of it is megabox. It’s just a lottery. Applying online to jobs, if you make over a hundred thousand. It’s just too hard, right? So just be… You don’t know any executive recruiters? Ask your peers. If you’re the VP of Marketing, ask your other VP marketing friends. “Hey, who do you guys like? Who do you guys use? The biggest tip that I can give any candidate is that, this was given to me by my dad is, “Without Integrity, nothing else matters.” So be honest. Be a person of Integrity because once you get that stain, whether that’s drugs, alcohol, and embezzling, sleeping with your secretary, whatever it is. Once you got that stain in the casino business, is hard to get out. Everybody knows, everybody knows… So be a person of Integrity, just be honest. That’s the best tip that I have for you.

(26:07-26:11) CS: And it goes beyond career. That’s life in general.

(26:11-26:12) MW: Right.

(26:12-26:29) CS: Mark, thank you so much. I really appreciate your time. This is super interesting. Hopefully, we can do it again sometime. And I’d love once… Yeah, maybe once the pandemic ends. I’d love to get your perspective on. Kind of a reflection/ a debriefing on the year that was.

(26:29-26:35) MW: Yeah, absolutely. And thank you so much. and as we say in Macau, Xiè xiè.

(26:35-26:42) CS: Xiè xiè. My wife is from Brazil and it’s funny. Xiè xiè means something totally different in Portuguese.

(26:42-26:43) MW: Is that right?

(26:43-26:44) CS: Yeah.

(26:44-26:46) MW: And if you’re in Japan its Arigatōgozaimashita.

(26:46-26:48) CS: All right. So how…

(26:48-26:56) MW: I got to know enough Mandarin, so I can talk to the cab drivers in Macau.

(26:56-27:16) CS: I guess I know we’re wrapping up, but I was curious about this. I didn’t drill in on it. So you’re the Godfather of Las Vegas. But obviously, you place tribal casinos. You place people all over the country, but you also work in Macau? How did you get plugged in there? Was it through like, Las Vegas Sands and American corporations are having…

(27:16-28:21) MW: A place a head of money laundering in Australia… I placed a CEO in Canada. It’s worldwide because I have that debt network of casino gaming people. And Kevin Kelley was the president of Station Casinos for a long time. He went down and now I believe this title COO of Galaxy Entertainment. And they were having trouble with the very high-end positions, Senior VP slots. And then, that worked out really well. And I sent them someone and then, they came back to me for the EVP of their table strategy or as they call it ETG. And I sent Mark Takano down there and that worked out great. And then Paul Baker is the head of SJM. Great guy used to be at Wynn Resorts before that. He was with Caesars for a lot of years. They’ll go David Cyst his a COO, used to be Sands Anyway, so it just my network and these guys are very kind to remember my name. And when they get these very challenging searches where there’s five people in the world that can do it. They call me.

(28:21-28:31) CS: So with the money laundering… What was the story with that casino in Saipan? The US Saipan I remember hearing about this a couple of years ago.

(28:31-31:05) MW: Well, there was a big blowup down in Australia with Crown Resorts. And so, Matt Bekier is the CEO of Star Entertainment said. “That’s not happening here, right? Those are the two big star and crown.” So I was again… Right place, right time. I had that farmer, had a money laundering for Las Vegas Sands and how it started. And I sent him down there. And stars clean as a whistle. And they’re all good such an international Saipan funny story. They called me years ago wanted Vp of slots to go down there. So what do you thinking and he says, “150,000” And I just started… We’re having a zoom calling… I just started laughing. He goes “Whats so funny?” and. I go you’re on an Island off the coast of Japan for god sakes. And I think they were going to the circus tent. I’ll go, nobody’s coming for 150. The going rate here is 200-225. I go 300?. So I never ended up doing business… He got offended obviously. And so I never did business with them. But yeah, they had all kinds of trouble. We had all kinds of trouble here. It doesn’t always make the news from embezzlement… Did you see the whole thing going down in Korea with the thirteen million that disappeared? No, what happened? That’s a big deal, they had a bunch of money and I know the guy that used to run that casino years ago. I won’t mention the casino. Those guys are all mobbed up. So anyway, they lost 13 million dollars. They think somebody ran off with that cash. Well, then like a week later they came back and they said, Hey, we found six million. It was like in a safe somewhere. Its a really weird deal. Asia is different deal then the United States compliance wise a little differently. What about the Caribbean? You do any work in the Caribbean? I do. I place the CFO for Caribbean car. Really interesting company. They have an 800-pound gorilla of slots in the Caribbean run by a wonderful guy named Bob Washington and his boss is RLJ, Robert L. Johnson. The Founder of BET, Black Entertainment Television. Really nice guys. Was referred to me by Blakes Sartini the Chairman of Golden Entertainment. Thank you, Blake. And I was able to get him a CFO and they’re doing really really well. Obviously the Caribbean, and the Bahamas Atlantis, and Baha Mar. I think Atlantis is still closed. Definitely got the pandemic down there. So it’s been tough times all over. I got a guy supposed to start in Manila, the Philippines a month ago. And the border still closed in the Philippines. I can’t get him there.

(31:05-31:18) CS: I was worried I would take up too much of your time, but you’re so interesting to talk to. So Mark, thank you for being so gracious. I really appreciate you getting on here with me. And please let’s do it again sometime in the not-too-distant future.

(31:18-31:19) MW: Happy to do.

(31:19-31:23) CS: Thank you, Mark.

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